Brian Escobar and Walter William Duncan III – How to Demystify Paychecks for Employees

Connect with Brian Escobar:

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Connect with Walter William Duncan III:

• 

Connect with David:

• 
• 
• david.turetsky@salary.com

Podcast Manager, Karissa Harris:

• HRDataLabs@salary.com

 

Production by Affogato Media

Resources:

• Salary.com's Consulting Practice
• It's About Payroll!
• HR Data Labs Season 6 Episode 21
• HR Data Labs Season 6 Episode 19

• “[As an employer], you want your employees to be financially savvy.”
• “[The key to understanding income taxes] is consuming multiple resources until you understand it, and that’s the thing: the resources are scarce.”

Announcer: 0:02

Here's an experiment for you. Take passionate experts in human resource technology, invite cross industry experts from inside and outside HR. Mix in what's happening in people analytics today. Give them the technology to connect, hit record for their discussions into a beaker. Mix thoroughly. And voila, you get the HR Data Labs podcast, where we explore the impact of data and analytics to your business. We may get passionate, and even irreverent, that count on each episode challenging and enhancing your understanding of the way people data can be used to solve real world problems. Now, here's your host, David Turetsky.

 

David Turetsky: 0:46

Hello, and welcome to the HR Data Labs podcast. I'm your host, David Turetsky. And like always, we try and find people inside and outside the world of HR to give you the latest on what's happening. Today I'm talking to two outstanding individuals, Brian Escobar and Walter Duncan. Hello, both of you.

 

Walter Duncan: 1:02

Hello, David. How are you?

 

David Turetsky: 1:03

Were you gonna take a sip of your coffee, Brian, did I interrupt that?

 

Brian Escobar: 1:06

Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 1:07

Sorry, dude. I got introduced to Brian because he's a client of mine. And the two of these guys are outstanding podcasters in and of themselves. They're amazing. I'm going to ask them to give you a description of their podcast. But first, Walt, give us a description of yourself and how you've gotten to this moment.

 

Walter Duncan: 1:25

Well, so for me, I've got to the payroll by actually choosing the job. Most people that you speak to who have gotten in payroll have fallen into it. I've actually chose this career. Right. So it was one of the different jobs I had to select when I was in the military. So I chose payroll.

 

David Turetsky: 1:43

Oh!

 

Walter Duncan: 1:43

Yeah. So that's a little bit about me. Army brat. I served myself, you know, back in 2001 to 2005. Been in payroll ever since, over two decades now. And we wanted to start the podcast because we wanted to empower people, you know, so that's a little bit about myself.

 

David Turetsky: 2:01

Without sounding trite. Thank you for your service, sir.

 

Walter Duncan: 2:05

Oh, appreciate that. Thank you.

 

David Turetsky: 2:06

Appreciate you keeping us safe.

 

Walter Duncan: 2:07

Yes. Thank you.

 

David Turetsky: 2:09

Mr. Escobar.

 

Brian Escobar: 2:09

Thank you, sir. Yes. So I'm Brian Escobar. Thank you so much. Father, husband, friend hopefully to folks. Originally to New York from New York.

 

David Turetsky: 2:21

Yeah!

 

Brian Escobar: 2:21

Yes, sir. Yeah, also been a payroll pro for over 20 years now. It's also some kind of I fell into, right? Walt, we always joke around Walt that he picked it. But I I'm one of the classic stories where I kind of fell into it.

 

Walter Duncan: 2:37

Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 2:37

It picked you, Brian.

 

Brian Escobar: 2:39

Yeah, it picked me. Thanks. Yeah. And that's it. And we really excited to here, be with you, David. You know, you you were there with us from day one. I went to David for advice on this.

 

David Turetsky: 2:49

And despite that, you're still podcasting! So there you go! But but let's talk a little bit about your, your podcast. Let's talk about, it's it's about your payroll and about your paycheck.

 

Brian Escobar: 3:01

Absolutely. So we started It's About Payroll first really, again, like Walt said, to empower folks, we, we knew that there was just a lack of content.

 

Walter Duncan: 3:11

Yeah.

 

Brian Escobar: 3:11

And we started building the business. And we started looking, there was no content out there, whether we went to like learning platforms, or YouTube or social media. For a while, it just got us mad. And then until it got us excited. And we were like, wait a minute, we can fill this gap! So we started out and you know, we just started talking about payroll stuff, you can kind of hear the evolution, you know, it gets better over time. We love it. Like folks come back to us and say, hey, just feels like we're talking to friends.

 

Walter Duncan: 3:44

Yeah.

 

Brian Escobar: 3:44

And that's that's like, that means everything to us, you know, folks have been using it to prep for the CPP, the certified payroll exam.

 

David Turetsky: 3:52

Right.

 

Brian Escobar: 3:53

I mean, just these little things that make that keep us going. You know, it's really, like you said, right, you said, Brian, it's thought leadership.

 

Walter Duncan: 4:00

Yeah.

 

Brian Escobar: 4:01

Keep that in mind. I don't forget! So we have we have like 80 Plus episodes on that. But then all of a sudden, we got the bug to say, you know, wow, consumers, consumer education.

 

Walter Duncan: 4:13

Yep.

 

Brian Escobar: 4:14

We had a colleauge that kind of put that in our ear a while back. And it took us a while to really figure out how to deliver that.

 

Walter Duncan: 4:22

Yeah.

 

Brian Escobar: 4:22

We were so ingrained in payroll that it's like, how do we turn the? How do we flip it to the customer side, and understand what they need to and to learn? So we've been excited about that. That's been fun. And that's about it. And we just having a ball doing it!

 

Walter Duncan: 4:40

Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 4:40

That's what it's got to be about.

 

Brian Escobar: 4:42

Yes.

 

David Turetsky: 4:43

Because if you're not having fun doing it, it's not worth it.

 

Brian Escobar: 4:46

Yep, absolutely.

 

David Turetsky: 4:46

Cause, let's be honest, we're not going to be millionaires from doing podcasting.

 

Brian Escobar: 4:51

Exactly!

 

David Turetsky: 4:52

We're not gonna get rich from this.

 

Walter Duncan: 4:55

For real.

 

David Turetsky: 4:56

It's all good. All right, so, Walter, I'm gonna start you first. What's one fun thing that no one knows about Walter?

 

Walter Duncan: 5:03

One fun thing that no one knows about me. I am very creative. I love music, SoundCloud, everything like that, that's. I have my own music on there. So you can go check it out and get some laughs in, if you want to hear some some music that was made on a cell phone or something. But yeah, I have a SoundCloud. I have like 800 followers right now. So yeah, that's it.

 

David Turetsky: 5:27

That's cool! Oh, well, you'll have 801 now. I'm gonna go up there. You just have to give me the link to it.

 

Walter Duncan: 5:33

Okay, will do.

 

David Turetsky: 5:35

We'll post it.

 

Walter Duncan: 5:36

Okay.

 

David Turetsky: 5:38

Brian, what's one thing that no one knows about Mr. Escobar?

 

Brian Escobar: 5:42

You know, this is a tough question. But the I think the funnest thing I could think about was when I was working in New York, I came up in a scene of the movie The Switch with Jennifer Aniston and Jason Bateman. They were recording right out, right in my building, actually. And I was coming back from lunch and I'm, Hey, can I get in? And they're like, No, we're recording, like, okay, no problem. But I stood right where they stopped me at the line. And I'm like, a blurry figure in one of the scenes and I'm like, Babe, I tell my wife. Babe, that's me!!

 

David Turetsky: 6:18

See that blob right there?

 

Brian Escobar: 6:22

The only reason she believed is because I had a bald head. She's like, Oh, crap, maybe that is you?

 

David Turetsky: 6:27

Well, she's got to believe you dude. There's nobody who's gonna sign up for, that blur is me.

 

Brian Escobar: 6:32

A blur, really? Exactly.

 

David Turetsky: 6:34

Very impactful blur though. I think you made the movie, dude.

 

Brian Escobar: 6:38

You know what I'm saying? I don't know where the SAG is gonna call me or what.

 

Walter Duncan: 6:42

You should be getting royalties, man!

 

David Turetsky: 6:44

Nope, none. Sorry.

 

Brian Escobar: 6:47

But that was one of the fun things about New York. You know, you just

 

David Turetsky: 6:51

That's true.

 

Brian Escobar: 6:51

You met amazingly famous people and made things all the time. So it was cool.

 

David Turetsky: 6:58

You can run into him on the street. You could run into a scene.

 

Brian Escobar: 7:01

Yeah. Subways, elevators. I mean, it was great.

 

David Turetsky: 7:05

Because like, I didn't hang out on the restaurants they hang out in. But you know,

 

Brian Escobar: 7:08

No okay, yeah. I still can't get into those!

 

David Turetsky: 7:13

Dude, I can't afford to get into those! Let's be honest.

 

Brian Escobar: 7:15

Exactly.

 

David Turetsky: 7:16

Even if they said, oh, there's, there's a seat open. I'm good. I'm gonna go to the hotdog stand right there.

 

Brian Escobar: 7:22

Yeah, oh, those are my favorites. But it gotta be Sabretts.

 

David Turetsky: 7:25

See, I'm kosher, so I can't eat that. But in New York City, you just walk a block, and you get whatever.

 

Brian Escobar: 7:31

That's right.

 

David Turetsky: 7:32

Today's topic is going to be a lot of fun, because we're going to borrow from your podcasting to talk about, it's about your paycheck. And we're going to think, or we're going to talk through the empowerment that is available to an organization by thinking about their employee as a customer.

 

Walter Duncan: 7:50

Yes.

 

David Turetsky: 8:00

So our first question, why is it important to educate employees about their pay?

 

Brian Escobar: 8:06

Many reasons, right. The first is you want them to be savvy, when they have problems you want them to have some basic understanding of what's going on in their check. And feel comfortable about asking questions. We run into folks that are afraid to ask their payroll departments, what's going on with my check? What is this code mean? Why is you know, something lower and looks different? And they're afraid! And we're like, No, these are things that are any decent payroll department, any decent HR department is going to help you with. So it's, it's, it's, it's really about empowerment, and the lack of education that's out there available for them.

 

David Turetsky: 8:47

Well, I mean, do they even really get to see their paycheck these days? I mean, cause usually you have go, because I don't receive my pay stub!

 

Brian Escobar: 8:54

David!

 

David Turetsky: 8:56

You know, there's the mobile app, and I go to the mobile app, and I gotta remember my password. I gotta go in. And you know, it goes in my account. It looks right.

 

Brian Escobar: 9:04

There you go.

 

David Turetsky: 9:05

But that's the problem, right?

 

Walter Duncan: 9:06

That's a common, yup.

 

Brian Escobar: 9:07

We we had a customer in the past years that went a whole year paying to the wrong state, and didn't realize it until year end came, W2 came, that they looked at,

 

David Turetsky: 9:20

oh, yeah.

 

Brian Escobar: 9:21

And it was like, I don't live in that state. It was like $1,000 to the wrong state! That's a significant amount of money, but not a big amount of money per check. So you don't go look at your stub and you don't

 

David Turetsky: 9:32

Right. I think it goes back to even more Right. realize these things. fundamental financial education.

 

Walter Duncan: 9:42

Yes!

 

David Turetsky: 9:43

People just don't really pay attention to their finances, to the extent that they could be in big trouble or they could be losing money. If they didn't actually know or that if they kind of plead ignorance on I don't know, I trust my company. They'll do the right thing for me. They'll find a problem if I have one.

 

Brian Escobar: 10:02

No trust but verify.

 

Walter Duncan: 10:03

Yes.

 

Brian Escobar: 10:04

That's one of our famous quotes on the show, trust but verify.

 

David Turetsky: 10:10

But we have so many people that are living paycheck to paycheck and have very little financial acumen to begin with. Where do they start? If let's just say, we have somebody listening to the podcast right now, and what would you encourage them to do to get started understanding their paycheck?

 

Brian Escobar: 10:27

Well get a trusted source, you know, without being corny, like, come and listen to us. But beyond that, it's start with your, just start, right? Yeah, yeah, start with your state. Most states will guide you and say, hey, look, we don't we either default to the federal guidelines, or here are our guidelines. So it's these little things to kind of hey that helped them navigate, start with your state learn with you can. If they default to federal rules, go research the FLSA and the wage and hour laws from the federal level. And what the show wants to do is make this stuff digestible, right? We want to break this down into easy concepts. One thing at a time, we talk about overtime, right? We talk about, we just recorded a holiday show. Holiday pay,

 

Walter Duncan: 11:20

Yes.

 

Brian Escobar: 11:21

a lot of folks don't realize the policies behind it. You got to work before and after the day of the holiday to get the pay. Maybe eligibility is the issue, maybe you're still in probation, and you're not you're not eligible. These little things that folks get frustrated about. And they want to know! They want to understand more.

 

David Turetsky: 11:41

Well, let me pose this one to Walt, it's to me, it's a question of two things. Number one, they are not experts in HR, they're not experts in payroll. So Brian's point about educating yourself and going to learn FLSA and learn about, dude those, those they haven't, they've no even idea what FLSA means.

 

Walter Duncan: 12:02

Yeah!

 

David Turetsky: 12:02

So. So if you could simplify it, is there a place or a way for them to really understand, like, get a cheat sheet on how to interpret their paycheck?

 

Walter Duncan: 12:11

Unfortunately, from what Brian and I have seen,

 

David Turetsky: 12:12

Yeah. Cause, because Walter, I mean, to be there's not a lot of resources out there outside of the government, things that are out there on a state level, federal level or whatever, right? And if there is, it's most likely with their employer. And a lot of employers don't do a good job with educating their employees about their pay. They let them know like, hey, read your employee handbook. But that's a lot of stuff for them to cover and stuff like that. And they really don't. Like basically make it easy for people to understand. Right? So I honestly say that there, there probably isn't a lot of good resources out there for employees to really reach out to besides their employer. And, you know, shameless plug, our show, right? honest, you're not going to get employees, you're not going to get the people who you're talking about as customers. They're not going to know even, you know, from an FLSA perspective, what overtime exemption might mean. And if they understood the rules, that would be remarkable.

 

Walter Duncan: 13:20

Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 13:20

Because we don't even understand the rules! And the rules are changing. I think you've seen that the there's a new proposed rate of $55,000 for exemption status, which is$20,000 more than where it is today. So that opens up millions upon millions of new people might be non exempt.

 

Walter Duncan: 13:41

Yep.

 

Brian Escobar: 13:41

Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 13:41

The word non exempt means nothing except for to the FLSA. So, so it's even a confusing word, because you're basically saying someone isn't exempt from something. And it's hard to wrap the concept. And so when I've worked with people in the past, one of the things I've tried to do is to say, Okay, what we're going to do is we're going to create a document that's got all the jargon kind of translated, from a glossary perspective, so that real people like us, who are maybe not like us, because you guys are superheroes. But people like me could understand what does this mean to you? And what does it mean to your paycheck?

 

Walter Duncan: 14:16

No, you're absolutely right. Like, I think that one of the things that Brian mentioned to me is California just passing that 800 what's the assembly bill?

 

Brian Escobar: 14:27

Assembly Bill 800.

 

Walter Duncan: 14:28

Yeah. And they're really trying to educate juniors and seniors in high school on financial literacy and preparing them for their next journey. Right? So I think that's a start. Right, what California is doing, I think more people will start to gravitate towards that. And I think employers are going to do that and I think that is going to help because everybody does realize that like you, to your point, David, that there's not a lot of stuff out there that is low low level like, low what's that? Like low hanging fruit?

 

David Turetsky: 15:03

Yeah, right.

 

Walter Duncan: 15:04

Yeah, there's not a lot of stuff that people are, are accessible for them to really understand. That most people aren't gonna really go out there, even if they listen to the podcast, they're not gonna go research that stuff, you know? It needs to be brought to them and say, Hey, this is what you need, right here, something deliverable, something that they can, like, get on a consistent basis, right? Because even if you, you know, spout information at them, it takes a while for them to learn that and for it to sink in, right?

 

Announcer: 15:33

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David Turetsky: 15:44

Let's transition if we might to the second question, which is the most common challenges you guys see in actually educating people? Because we've been talking about some of them, like the complexities, but but why can't companies just make this part of what they do? We don't need state requirements to do this. Why don't companies do this?

 

Brian Escobar: 16:03

It's a good question. I, I think companies go as far as they have to, right? We do, payroll department always does a FAQ, right? And you kind of just address the needs of your population at that micro level, we see those common issues there as well, you know, but what we want to do is create that one place where we can go, and maybe it is your state, and But the problem is, is that the state has so many differences maybe it is the government that can build this new resource that gives you all the basic info. And it's across the board, it's not just what's unique to your company. We need a voice, you know, we don't have that place where that consumer education is, it's, it's always about, like, what your company needs. Well, this is our problem. So we're going to address that problem. potentially, like New York, for example, there's so many differences in the way payroll needs to get done across municipalities even!

 

Walter Duncan: 17:04

Yes.

 

David Turetsky: 17:04

So how do you draw common education? When something in Albany doesn't apply to New York City or doesn't apply to Staten Island even? Because of the local municipal potential rules that that exist, how does that work? And that's why I'm kind of putting on the employer since they already have to do all the withholdings and all the appropriate accruals anyways, why don't we put it up, put it back on them?

 

Brian Escobar: 17:26

We'll see. Because it's kind of easy, because if I'm a New York City employee, all I have to tell my employees is, hey, you're subject to New York City tax and you're in the five boroughs you have to pay this tax.

 

David Turetsky: 17:37

If they live there!

 

Brian Escobar: 17:39

Right.

 

David Turetsky: 17:39

But if they don't live there?

 

Brian Escobar: 17:42

Fair, but I don't have to say if you live in Albany, you're not going to pay it. All I gotta say is, hey, we're in New York City. If you're in five, you have a five zero address, tax is relevant.

 

David Turetsky: 17:54

But we also have a situation where we have remote employees that complicates things. We have employees which are dual domiciled, we have employees who are expats. So there's so many complications that, whether it's the state, whether it's the employee, sorry, the employer. Education is tough, man.

 

Brian Escobar: 18:14

But that's what makes it exciting! It's a,

 

David Turetsky: 18:16

By the way, only to you guys!

 

Brian Escobar: 18:21

But that's good, then we're here to fill that gap. Somebody's got to get excited about it.

 

David Turetsky: 18:26

That's right. Yeah, that's right. That's right. By the way, I say that you lovingly that it's just you

 

Brian Escobar: 18:31

I'll give you a really great example. Somebody guys. came to me and said, Brian, I had a problem with my employees. They were complaining that their pay is a day late. I was like, Well, what do you mean? I said, Well, payday's Friday. Walt knows all that talk about. And I was like, okay, payday's Friday. But everybody mostly gets paid on Thursday. And I was like, whoa, whoa, what do you mean? Well, their bank clears it on Thursday. Ah, yeah. That's that that's something special for their bank. Their employer's check date is still Friday.

 

David Turetsky: 19:05

That's right.

 

Brian Escobar: 19:06

Their law, their obligation is not until 5pm, end of business that Friday.

 

Walter Duncan: 19:13

Yep.

 

Brian Escobar: 19:14

So it's educating these folks. Like, Hey, folks, don't get angry at your company, at your employer or your payroll, understand what your check date is!

 

Walter Duncan: 19:23

Yeah.

 

Brian Escobar: 19:24

And that's your check date. Unfortunately, your bank is going quicker, awesome. But they also don't have to mandate to that requirement. If they're late that day, they're late. Walt, what was that? The bank said to you one time when you had to call?

 

Walter Duncan: 19:39

Well, the bank told me that they have until the end of business basically, to post someone's direct deposit on a check day.

 

Brian Escobar: 19:46

Usually you get it at nine in the morning, right? Or by that time, some people get in at 12:01.

 

David Turetsky: 19:52

That's right.

 

Brian Escobar: 19:52

You know, and these days again, because the banking system is changing so rapidly, another opportunity for education.

 

Walter Duncan: 20:01

Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 20:02

Well, I think we also have situations, which I'm sure you both have seen, where some employees, obviously many, actually get a check. That they have to either take to a check cashing place.

 

Brian Escobar: 20:13

Yes.

 

David Turetsky: 20:14

A payday lender? Unfortunately.

 

Brian Escobar: 20:16

Oh, gosh, I hope not.

 

David Turetsky: 20:17

No. But, well it is a reality, right?

 

Walter Duncan: 20:19

Yeah.

 

Brian Escobar: 20:19

Yeah, I've been there. I know, I've been there.

 

David Turetsky: 20:22

And, you know, we're dealing with, there's new technology. There's a company called DailyPay, which I just heard on the radio too. They were huge at HR Tech yesterday or last week. Sorry. And so, you know, there's a lot of different ways people are actually being consumers of that paycheck.

 

Walter Duncan: 20:41

Yes.

 

David Turetsky: 20:42

So paychecks are not paychecks anymore.They're everything.

 

Brian Escobar: 20:45

Yeah, they're everything. Yeah. Payroll is life.

 

Walter Duncan: 20:48

Yeah payroll is life.

 

David Turetsky: 20:49

Which makes it more complex for the education piece too.

 

Brian Escobar: 20:53

Yes, it does. It does. But again, a lot of opportunity. And I think folks get scared away from that. Right? Professionals may think Oh, this is too tough to teach consumers. No, but somebody's got to do it. And it in turn, it should help payroll and HR departments when you have a savvy consumer coming out, Hey, and I'd looked at my stub because, David, you can log on and look at your pay stub.

 

David Turetsky: 21:20

I'll do it right after the podcast.

 

Brian Escobar: 21:24

You know, they they go and can look at that and feel like they understand it. I had another friend that didn't understand when the his pay period ended. And they didn't have it flagged on the stub in a clear way. Yeah, it was just a random date in the corner. It didn't say Pay Period, end date. Basic stuff. Yeah, basic stuff.

 

Walter Duncan: 21:46

Basic, Basic stuff to us. Right?

 

Brian Escobar: 21:48

Correct. You're right.

 

David Turetsky: 21:49

Yeah. But Walter, you guys are so, you know, and I'm not trying to be effusive in my praise of both of you. But you guys are brilliant when it comes to this stuff. Because it's hard. Payroll is hard.

 

Walter Duncan: 21:59

It is.

 

David Turetsky: 22:00

When I owned payroll for half a minute in my previous life, one of my previous lives, I hated it, because it's really a no win proposition. And you know, when

 

you got to call, like, 12: 22:11

02, because the CEOs paycheck didn't hit his account, like you guys were talking about. Now that is not funny, a fun conversation, and then trying to get people awake to kind of deal with the problem. Never fun. No, especially if they're vendors.

 

Walter Duncan: 22:27

Yes, yeah. Well, gosh.

 

David Turetsky: 22:30

Hey, are you listening to this and thinking to yourself, Man, I wish I could talk to David about this? Well, you're in luck. We have a special offer for listeners of the HR Data Labs podcast, a free half hour call with me about any of the topics we cover on the podcast, or whatever is on your mind. Go to Salary.com/HRDLconsulting, to schedule your FREE 30 minute call today. So let me complicate things a little bit. Let me go to the next realm. Let's talk about taxes.

 

Brian Escobar: 23:03

Yes.

 

David Turetsky: 23:04

Because they are, you know, they're of the three paradigms birth, death and taxes, right? So we need to educate employees on taxation, or they need to educate themselves. What have you found, as most, I guess, you could say successful about that education? And who does it and how?

 

Brian Escobar: 23:25

Walt, you want to start with that?

 

Walter Duncan: 23:26

Yeah. So we have a an associate, who has a really great breakdown of the new W4, Gerard M Hall, that payroll guy, he really breaks it down for people and explains it in a way that they can digest it. So I think that's something like that those tools are a start. But I think it, everyone's situation is different. Right? So I think that for the tax piece of it. And payroll, I think people don't understand how their W4 is tied to their pay and their net pay. Right? And if they have deductions in their W2. Right. So they, a lot of people don't really understand how those things work. So I think we have the opportunity as employers and professionals to really just say, hey, this, these are all things that impact your pay, taxes being one of those things, right? And I think that they're, you know, there's just a general stuff is out there like hey, go to your own tax professional. One of the common things that we say in payroll, because we can't give them no legal advice on taxes. So hey, go to irs.gov, here are some helpful links, you can you can access and educate yourself. So I think it's giving the people the resources, even though you may have you may be limited in the answer that you can give them but pointing them in the right direction is the start. We can always do better with the information that we give, but I didn't pointed them in the right direction is where we start for that.

 

David Turetsky: 25:04

You guys might recall that during the last administration, there was a change to withholding. And it was it seemed like they reduce taxes, but it wasn't. They reduced payroll taxes, they did not reduce the tax burden. And so there were a lot of people who hadn't shifted their W4's to accommodate to take out more, because the deductions were taking out less at that point.

 

Brian Escobar: 25:31

Yes.

 

David Turetsky: 25:32

What do people do? How do they keep themselves, you know, aware of that? Because there while there was a lot of pronouncements from the government, they basically were talking about tax cuts, but it wasn't a tax cut! Like, how do people stay on top of that stuff? I mean, just going to irs.gov isn't gonna do that.

 

Walter Duncan: 25:48

No

 

Brian Escobar: 25:48

No, it's tough. It's consuming multiple resources until you understand it. And that's the thing, the resources are scarce and they're complicated. Honestly, they ended up learning, because their paycheck was hit, because they ended up owing at the end of the year,

 

David Turetsky: 26:04

That is such a rude awakening

 

Brian Escobar: 26:06

People coming in angry! You guys messed this up! And honestly, that's when me and Walt were like, Okay, we got to take a more active role in helping folks and not only at our jobs, right, because that's where they need it. And like, we got to start there. But in the world, because like, this was

 

Walter Duncan: 26:25

Yeah, I think that we, as the employers can do too much. a little bit more when it comes to these things. Just, you know, before giving them legal advice on their taxes and how to file, right, we could do a little bit more by providing like, hey, in their new hire packet, and there's some stuff in here about taxes, W4, this that, like your benefits, how your benefits are going to impact may impact your taxes if they if you have pre tax deductions, and those things, right? Like, we could give them more resources at the beginning. Because to your point, like just sending them to irs.gov is not going to be enough for them. They'll get there and they'll still be lost. Like, we could tell them like, hey, the IRS has a tax calculator that can estimate what they would need to pay and according to their situation, right? So we can have them use that. Right? But if we just point them to irs.gov and say, Hey, look at the circular E, nobody's gonna understand that I used to do that.

 

David Turetsky: 27:24

The circular what? Am I going to be able to get something off of my eggs when I go to the store?

 

Walter Duncan: 27:29

Yes, yes.

 

David Turetsky: 27:30

It's only circular I know. But no, but that's a good point. Yeah, that's a really good point, we've got to be very specific, right? And point out certain tools not trying to overwhelm them. Because, you know, after a while, it becomes noise, to your point going to the IRS website. Holy. So this is not I mean, we're never going to solve world peace in one, you know, one episode, and the one thing I'll tell everybody is, these two guys are brilliant. Go listen to their podcasts. You know, there's 24 hours a day, I was telling them before, there's 24 hours in a day, you can listen to ours for 12 and their's for 12. Totally cool.

 

Brian Escobar: 28:09

Yeah, we got the world covered between the two there.

 

David Turetsky: 28:12

Yeah, yeah. But listen, you know, you guys are awesome. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your being on the podcast. And we're gonna have to have you back because there are other topics I know we

 

Walter Duncan: 28:30

Oh absolutely. have to cover.

 

Brian Escobar: 28:32

Anytime. Thank you so much.

 

David Turetsky: 28:33

Let's not wait years, though. Oh please.

 

Brian Escobar: 28:35

Yeah, yes. Well, you know, it was man, if for a And I didn't even have the courage to reach out. moment I was like, we're not even big enough to be on HR Data Oh, yeah.

 

Walter Duncan: 28:39

Look, we've been following you guys. You guys Labs yet. have really been helping us model our, our podcast. So we thank you a lot.

 

David Turetsky: 28:54

Well, this is definitely a, don't do what we do and you'll be great. Anyways, thank you so much, Walter. Brian, appreciate your being on my program. Everybody listened to their two podcasts. We're gonna have show notes. We're gonna put links in, listen to these guys. They are brilliant. Everybody, take care and stay safe.

 

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