Yasmine Mustafa – Workplace Violence and Its Effect on HR

Connect with Yasmine Mustafa:

• 

Connect with Dwight:

• 
• dwight.brown@salary.com

Connect with David:

• 
• 
• david.turetsky@salary.com

Podcast Manager, Karissa Harris:

• HRDataLabs@salary.com

 

Production by Affogato Media

Resources:

• Salary.com's Consulting Practice
• ROAR
• HR.com Article on Workplace Safety
• Pollack Peacebuilding
• Crisis Prevention Institute
• HR Data Labs Season 6 Episode 18
• HR Data Labs Season 6 Episode 16

• “[Workplace violence] is the worst it’s ever been, and a lot of it is due to not having supported systems for underlying social issues.”
• “As soon as there’s a workplace violence incident, the entire morale of an organization plummets.”

Announcer: 0:02

Here's an experiment for you. Take passionate experts in human resource technology. Invite cross industry experts from inside and outside HR. Mix in what's happening in people analytics today. Give them the technology to connect, hit record, pour their discussions into a beaker, mix thoroughly. And voila, you get the HR Data Labs podcast, where we explore the impact of data and analytics to your business. We may get passionate and even irreverent, that count on each episode challenging and enhancing your understanding of the way people data can be used to solve real world problems. Now, here's your host, David Turetsky.

 

David Turetsky: 0:48

Hello, and welcome to the HR Data Labs podcast. I'm your host, David Turetsky. Like always, we try and find fascinating people inside and outside the world of HR to talk to you about what's happening in the world of business today. We have a fascinating guest for you today, Yasmine Mustafa, who is the co-founder and CEO of ROAR. Hello, Yasmine. How are you?

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 1:07

Hi, David. I'm doing fantastic today. How are you doing?

 

David Turetsky: 1:10

I'm doing great! So tell us a little bit about yourself and tell us a little bit about ROAR.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 1:15

Sure! Yeah, so I am in Philadelphia, I founded ROAR almost 10 years ago. People say have a interesting backstory.

 

David Turetsky: 1:23

Let's hear it!

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 1:23

I am a refugee of the Persian Gulf War. Yeah. I'm a refugee of the Persian Gulf War. I actually came here very suddenly, almost, it'll be 33 years in a few weeks. I was sitting in a bomb shelter. I was eight years old with my family, my my parents, my siblings, when all of a sudden two ambassadors came through the door looking for my baby brother who had just been born on the state, in the states nine weeks prior. And they told us we had an hour, packed bags, put us on a plane, brought us to Philly. It was very different as you can imagine, new culture, a new language. I didn't know anyone. I lived in the same building, where my cousins, my aunts, my uncles, my grandparents, like, I could just literally go upstairs and downstairs and see family.

 

David Turetsky: 2:06

Wow.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 2:07

And we were thrust into a lot of unknowns. And anyway, long story short is when I, seven years later, when I was planning for college, I learned I was undocumented, unfortunately, and the clock had reset. So I had to reapply to get the paperwork, which was shocking, you know, because I was brought over by the government.

 

David Turetsky: 2:23

Right.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 2:23

And then at 18, my dad decided he was fed up with the immigration system, hopped on a plane with two bags, but first stopped at the bank and took all the family savings with him.

 

David Turetsky: 2:33

No!

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 2:34

Yeah, so then it was my my mom, my siblings, and I, we didn't really have much choice. I know that sounds very, very stressful. And of course it was, but I think we were also, we came to grips of there's no other option. So what is, it actually almost makes it easier to figure out what to do next. And so we all worked under the table. I worked really in hospitality for 10 years, mostly back of kitchen, front, hostess, waitress, whatever job I could get. And it was there that I unfortunately, experienced a lot of unsafe working conditions, not just because of just the hospitality industry in general, but because of my status. I had bosses who felt very emboldened by it, and said and did things that really no one should say or do to another human being. So that's a little bit more of my my history, which led me to starting ROAR, which is completely focused on protecting at risk, vulnerable, vulnerable people.

 

David Turetsky: 3:28

Thank goodness. So what is ROAR? What I mean, obviously, that is ROAR's mission. But how does that manifest itself for organizations today? And what we'll do is we'll put a link to ROAR

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 3:37

I love what we do because of what I just shared with you. Because what we do is we help protect frontline workers. We provide peace of mind to the everyday worker that might experience either increased harassment, violence in the show notes that anybody can, if they feel unsafe, or if from guests/patients, or because they're injured or something happens on the job. They can call help with just one push of a button to get someone to their exact location, either from nearby staff or emergency services. they want more information, they can go and reach out as well. Yeah, please do! I just spoke to someone yesterday who reached out because she has an employee who's been stalked. And this person was a former classmate she hasn't seen in years, and he's sending her text messages, I want to drink your blood. It's just like, there's some, you know, there's a lot of things going on in this world. And I love that this employer was so, she wants to make sure that this person has what they need that they reached out to try to see what they can do to help.

 

David Turetsky: 4:40

Well, we're certainly going to touch on those topics in a moment. But first, like we do every single HR Data Labs podcast, we have to ask you, Yasmine, what's one fun thing that no one knows about you?

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 4:51

I was just talking to my boyfriend over the weekend about what we want to do when we retire.

 

David Turetsky: 4:57

Yeah.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 4:58

And I was I was actually kind of surprised by my answer, I think I want to work at an ice cream store. And I know that sounds so simple. But what I've

 

David Turetsky: 5:03

Wow. noticed is anytime you go to an ice cream store, it's basically you're serving happiness. Exactly.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 5:10

Like you're in front of kids, old, it doesn't matter where you're from, what you look like, every time you hand over that ice cream, everyone smiles and I really liked that. The simplicity and the joy of of that what that experience must feel like.

 

David Turetsky: 5:24

I will tell you that my children would love to actually be your best clients. Although we're not in Philadelphia, wherever you are, we'll come and we'll be your your best clients. By the way, that's much better than the alternative that you had put in the outline, which is that you were almost going to be a professional poker player, which I would never want to play poker against you because I am the worst poker player in the world.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 5:47

I forgot about that. Yeah, in college, it was my side hustle to pay my way through school. That was actually really fun.

 

David Turetsky: 5:54

Yeah, there you go. And so IRS, she's just kidding. She never made money off of it.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 6:01

You know, I didn't do it because it's the bad beats that get you every time but you can't stop thinking about. The wins, of course you're happy. But those bad beats they stay with you for such a longer period of time and my heart, I don't think I could survive doing that as a profession.

 

David Turetsky: 6:17

When I coach goalies, especially young goaltenders, in ice hockey, the first thing I tell them is to forget your losses, and to forget your goals that are scored against you. Think about it as just something that happened and you have to move on. Because whether you're playing golf or poker or whatever, if you focus on the bad stuff that just happened, it'll taint the next thing that happens and the next thing and you won't be successful. So important.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 6:41

That's such good advice. Did you see Ted Lasso? Be a goldfish. This is just, so by the way, I think that show is such an amazing show for HR leaders to watch because I feel like it's just really it's it's leadership. That's what the show is all about. But I loved his advice on

 

David Turetsky: 6:56

And mental health issues as well. So it covers a lot of different things. Yeah.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 7:00

Yeah. And just Ted Lasso's advice to one of the members he's coaching and this is I swear, not a spoiler is this he gives this lesson of just be a goldfish, when something bad happens, goldfish have a memory of 10 seconds.

 

David Turetsky: 7:12

That's right.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 7:12

And let it go. And I really appreciated that lesson.

 

David Turetsky: 7:15

That's right, I always sing from Frozen. But I'm not going to do that here. Because I barely have a voice for radio. And I certainly don't have the face for it, or actually I do. So let's move on and talk about your topic. So today, we're going to be talking about the increase in workplace violence, which is one of the more serious topics we've covered in the HR Data Labs podcast. We're going to talk about some of the underlying factors that actually drive it right now. And what its impact is to HR as well as to an organization and maybe some strategies to help safeguard your employees. Yasmine, your first question is, and, you know, it's awful to talk about, but we have to, what is workplace violence? And why is it being caused? What and why is it? Why is it so prevalent right now?

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 8:10

Yeah, great question. It's, it's, unfortunately, the worst it's ever been. And a lot of it is due to not having supportive systems for underlying social issues. So what do I mean by that? Unfortunately, the wealth gap is widening. And that is causing, leading into a lot more cases of homelessness, people experiencing homelessness, the mental health crisis continues to grow. And also there's more drug abuse and alcohol abuse, and then there has ever been. So all three of those combining into one, we're essentially living in a pressure cooker is what it feels like. And that's what's what's what's happening is it's causing people going into workplaces, and there being this instability of not sure in how to either regulate emotions or because someone has altered mind, leading to increased harassment or physical assaults against frontline workers. And it's usually retail, healthcare, hotels, really, anyone that's dealing with a customer or a patient, I guess, is more likely to experience that. Most of it is verbal, and by the way, the cases of instability are the highest they've ever been. And NPR just had an episode about this that was really interesting to listen to. But the impact of that is vast, right? Because when you were yelled at on the street, or especially when you try to do your job, your productivity plummets, your morale plummets, you're likely you're more likely to call off, it stays with you, kind of like we were talking about the bad beats, you remember that negative behavior more. And, and anyway, so what's causing it is just this instability that we're seeing amongst our society. And workplace violence is anything where it has to do with harassment, verbal, physical against a worker in the workplace.

 

David Turetsky: 10:00

I mean, social media is fertile with videos of whether it's a client or customer at an airport, or in an airline situation where someone is just it looks, whether they're, whether they're on alcohol, drugs or whatever. They're just going off the deep end, they're literally, you don't know why, and probably this is one of the issues you're talking about is, they're under, they must be under so much stress that all of a sudden they explode. And they're exploding the wrong people! Obviously, they shouldn't be exploding at anybody, but they're harming the people who are trying to keep them safe on an airplane at 35,000 feet, in situations that could put all of the passengers lives in jeopardy.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 10:48

Exactly. I just saw a video on Reddit of of I don't know if you saw this, a passenger open the exit door while the plane was mid flight. I mean, how insane is that? Not just risking, of course, himself, but everybody around him!

 

David Turetsky: 11:01

Well, there's no words, right? You don't, it doesn't make any sense. I mean, maybe they wanted to commit suicide. But it just, it boggles your mind. Like bringing a loaded gun into a manufacturing plant, for what? There's only one purpose for that, and it's inflicting damage. And so, as you said, there's economic instability, there's social instability, there's political instability, obviously, there's the socio economic instability. You mentioned homelessness, you mentioned stress, all of that's driving people to do things they normally wouldn't do. Then there's the things that people do all the time, like bullying, or sexual harassment, where whether it's stress or whatever, there's never, there's never an excuse for this. But if you're, if you're thinking about the current causes of it, why is right now why does it seem like there's a pinnacle happening now? It just seems like everything's coming to a place where it's a daily occurrence, and we've kind of drowned it out, because it all seems like noise. Now, what? Why does it seem like it's so frequent and so fertile right now?

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 12:14

I think, we have different answers from different people. I think for me, personally, it's been building for a very long time. And I think COVID kind of unleashed it in a much bigger way, I think we're more in pain than we've ever been. I think a lot of people have not been able to deal with it, especially based on maybe the losses that they've had. But I also think that there is, there is more mistrust than there's ever been. There are studies that have shown we're more apathetic than we've ever been. We've become used to seeing what we see. And, and I think, unfortunately, we've lost some of our humanity.

 

David Turetsky: 12:52

Which is awful to say, but it's certainly true. We used to have this concept of neighborhood. We used to be able to walk around our neighborhood and say hi to people, and not get these side glances like, what's wrong with them that they're saying hi to me, or what's their ulterior motive? What what's going on here? I don't send my kid out, to play with the neighbor's kids anymore. That's how I grew up where I used to, I used to meet at a neighbor's house. I didn't even tell my mom where I was going, because she knew that, you know, I was in the neighborhood, I was safe. That doesn't happen anymore.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 13:27

I think there is an upside and downside, I think downside is technology, unfortunately, has made it so that we can get information at our fingertips, and we hear the worst of the worst. That's the news that seems to capture our attention. And I would say before COVID, we were actually safer than we've ever been. So the reality of what the world was, and what we thought it was our perception was actually a very, very off. I think, to your point, we did used to have more tight knit communities where people would see each other at churches or they would stoop. I don't know if you have stoops where you are, but I'm in South Philly, and we're very much a stooping neighborhood. But you know, once air conditioning became more common once technology became more ubiquitous, we are less connected than we've ever been. We actually just had a neighborhood meeting where the main message of a person running it, she said, get to know your neighbor before you need your neighbor. Because unfortunately, that's you know, these days, I mean, I've lived on my block, or my house for two years. And I have to go out of my way to get my neighbors to engage with me because we have become shut off and closed off. But I do think that there is an upside. I think that if we remember the humanity, not just within ourselves and others, and we find a way to engage, I think we can turn things around. And I know we're going to talk about what HR professionals can do and I'd love to dig more into the upsides of there. There are solutions there are things to help remedy this.

 

Announcer: 14:58

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David Turetsky: 15:09

Let's talk about the impact to HR now. Let's talk about what does workplace violence do that then touches on how HR reacts to it, how they set strategies for it, how they may put in place policies around it, and then what's the overall organizational impact?

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 15:28

Great question. Yeah, let's say short term or long term, I'll divide them into this short term. As soon as there's a workplace violence incident, the entire morale of an organization plummets, because now someone, an employee that someone knows has been hurt, has been impacted. There, there needs to be communication on both sides in terms of what's going on. And what stats show is, anytime someone is hurt in the workplace, not only are they more likely to leave, but others around them are more likely to leave. So right now, the biggest impact that we're seeing amongst HR is the staffing shortages, especially in organizations that have or industries that have a lot of frontline workers. The three biggest industries facing this right now, hospitality, healthcare, and retail, they can't hire workers fast enough. And a lot of that is because they're not happy with their job, because who wants to be yelled at? There's also, of course, loss of productivity, when there is an incident, people are mentally focused on that and it's harder to get beyond it to do your everyday work. More people actually call off after an incident happens. And then that doesn't even include the costs that's associated with it. In health care, nurses are more likely to be attacked than police officers and prison guards. I mean, that's just nuts, right? And right now, 80% of first year nurses don't plan on coming back. So it's not just that the shortage has been existing and it's already bad, but as Gen Z's enter the workforce, they're less likely to put up with it, and they're leaving in droves. And you can even that staffing shortage is widening, which is unfortunate. And then there's worker's comp claims, right? Because when someone calls off, you have to file a claim, on average, it's about $9,500. And then when they can't work, you have to bring someone else in either from a staffing agency or hire or telling an employee to stay overtime and pay them overtime. So there's all these horrible effects that unfortunately, increase costs. And what we've seen is a lot of HR organizations, you know, they of course, they struggle with with with turnover and recruitment, sometimes in these industries where workplace violence is the worst, but sometimes they see those as indirect costs. But if if they were more focused on them, not only can that contribute to bottom line savings for the organization, but actually helping be able to come up with solutions that best fit their workforce.

 

David Turetsky: 17:47

And Yasmin, you brought this up before, but I think it bears mentioning again, these people who are the focus or the target of the attacks, they're mostly the most lowest paid people. They're mostly in economic situations that aren't great to begin with. When they get attacked, it affects their mental health, their economic health, and probably the health of their families as well. And so it creates a cycle of or a spiral downwards for all the people involved, because they can't afford not to work. And they cannot afford to not be in a position mentally, physically, or whatever, to be able to get that paycheck. So and workers comp does not cover, you know, 100%, it certainly doesn't cover the overtime that they may have gotten. And it then just sets the entire spiral downward. What do we do? Or how do we how do we deal with that? Because it's also in places where you can't really filter people coming into a retail organization. You can't really filter people coming into a healthcare organization. They are going to come in because they're patients. They are going to come in because they're customers. And we can put a metal detector at the door, but that doesn't stop people from picking up something on a shelf and using it, right?

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 19:03

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's a great question. I think there's a few things. I think right off the bat, because exactly what you said they tend to be the lowest paid people. And to some organizations, they might seem disposable, because the turnover is already high, so why focus on retaining versus just getting a recurring influx? I think I'm sure your listeners understand more than anyone why it is why retention costs and why retention is so important within an organization. But I think immediately one of the things I've seen that's been successful are HR organizations that do invest in mental health of their employees, all employees, not just managers, senior level. But there are now business subscriptions for Headspace, Calm. There's organizations that you can bring in and a lot of them are actually offering free counseling sessions. I think that that's huge. And that's, by the way, as an addition to health insurance, because unfortunately, most of the time it doesn't cover mental health benefits.

 

David Turetsky: 20:01

But the key is not to do that after an event has happened. But the key is to have that as part of your normal course of business. Right?

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 20:08

Exactly. Yeah. Another normal course of business, I would say is investing in de-escalation training. And so there are experts out there that can come in to an organization or even do a zoom and, and teach workers what to watch out for so they can deter or mitigate an event befor it even happens. What are the warning signs that someone might get to the point where they're verbally or physically attacked? And then what's really amazing about that, it's just how much more empowered workers feel as a result, because now they have the tools. If someone comes in that, unfortunately, is experiencing addiction, you might be, you're, we're always afraid of what we don't know. So being able to fill in the gaps of here's the ABC of how to respond or how to watch out for something, helps people feel more confident about being able to address that situation, which reduces stress, not just in the workplace, but of course, across their communities.

 

David Turetsky: 21:05

We've seen police departments who've taken this de-escalation training, especially given the fact that there's a rise in the mental health issues, and there's a crisis as you brought up before. So that's one great example of how organizations can help try and alleviate the potential for workplace violence. What would you want to what what are other strategies that HR might be able to employ? Or other examples that you might pick out that that might be able to help lessen the potential for those happening as well?

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 21:36

Yeah, well, de-escalation training people think it's expensive, it's not. There is, I am happy to send referrals your way if you want to post them too, so that people are aware of them, Pollack Peacebuilding Solutions, Crisis Prevention Institute, are amazing resources out there. I would also say, when there is an incident that happens to talk about it. A lot of people will try to say, hey, this happened, you know, maybe not even communicate at all. But I think having a debrief session with all employees there so that their voices are heard. Unfortunately, that's not the norm. And I think HR can be more proactive, of listening to employees and what they say, but also employees are usually going to come up with the best ideas of what to do to help prevent it next time. We've also seen the organizations that have even just like a sign, like one of the things we do, and this is not a sales pitch, we do offer like, you know, buttons that call for help immediately.

 

David Turetsky: 22:32

Right.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 22:33

One of the things that shocked me is just our decal, we have a decal that we add to the window, just that alone, lets people know, hey, like this, store, this facility is protected. And it's, it's less likely for them to act out as a result. So whether it's a CCTV camera, or whatever it is, I think that's another way and a low effort way to be able to mitigate and prevent incidents from happening, but employees are going to know best what, what, what they want, and what would make them feel safer.

 

David Turetsky: 23:03

Hey, are you listening to this and thinking to yourself, Man, I wish I could talk to David about this? Well, you're in luck, we have a special offer for listeners of the HR Data Labs podcast, a free half hour call with me about any of the topics we cover on the podcast, or whatever is on your mind, go to Salary.com/HRDLconsulting, to schedule your FREE 30 minute call today. But I think the training that you're talking about is really important. One of the things that that happened to me, because I'm a 9/11 survivor, is when we were put into a room afterwards and they talked to us about what we observed, one of the things that people talked about was was that some people didn't think that the fire alarm that first one off was actual, was real. Because someone came on the PA right after and said, stay in place don't move. We don't know if this is real or not. And the people who listened to that perished. And so you know, having that ability to say, I think there's a fire here, or I think there's a problem, get the hell out of the building. Having that instinct is different than having the training to be able to deal with these things. Just like the shelter in place or other warnings that happen nowadays, the people who ignore those things are usually the people who get affected by them. And so what I'm I guess what I'm trying to say or ask is, how do you tell people or how do you convince people, when you hear something, or when you see something, do something, don't just sit on your butt at your desk? Just do something! We have too much going on these days that's actual, actually real and dangerous to you to not act on your instinct of get the hell out. So how do you, how do you help people try and figure out how the hell do you get out when people are telling you no, no stay at your desk. F you, I'm getting out!

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 25:02

Yeah, first of all, I didn't know that. I'm sorry to hear that.

 

David Turetsky: 25:07

That's all right.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 25:08

I would say that that's where training comes in. And it's not just a one time thing, of course, it's reinforcing the training. And one of the hardest things that employers have to do and insure is is really drilled into the workers that they have is to treat every single training incident as though it's real, especially when there's a simulation. So a lot of facilities right now, especially in healthcare and hotel settings aren't doing active shooter training. Of course, they'll do the training initially, and some of the time, by the way, a lot of police departments now offer it, so they'll come in. And what's nice about that for the facility is they become more familiar with not just the people there, but also the layout in case something does happen. But once they do a simulation, it's you can't pretend that it's a simulation, you have to pretend as if it's real, and fight against that fight versus flight instinct. And that's why reinforcing the training over and over, a lot of facilities don't do this. And we have to remind them, bring it up in your safety moments, your pre shift meetings, this is something that should be continuous, it is not one and done. Unfortunately, that's not the kind of world we live in today.

 

David Turetsky: 26:12

When I grew up, we were worried about the Soviet Union exploding nuclear weapons over our houses, over our schools. And we used to do the bomb training, where we used to go into the hallways and put our heads between our knees. And you know, we literally did this probably, probably not once a month, but certainly once a quarter, and they used the siren and all that stuff. And so for people my age, from this demographic, from this particular area, I think it may have been all across the US but we were it was drummed into our brains that when you hear something like that you've got a move. And I think that it's kind of been lost on a lot of people. And now with active shooter training, I think people are now realizing that it could affect them now, which is awful. I hate the fact that and I get really upset about it, so I'm trying not to do that right now. But you know, when you hear about school shootings, and my son is in fifth grade, and it could affect him, and it bothers the crap out of me. But how do we teach our kids that this is not a video game? And this is not, there's no reset? I know, you're talking about active shooter training and other things like that. And that you have to go through those trainings. But, you know, how do we make sure that they understand the message of this isn't a game? And you need to react the moment you hear something like this?

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 27:34

Yeah. Yeah. It's a tough one. I think, at least I'm sure it's It depends, which for children versus adults, I think children, I think we tend to feel more invincible than than adults do. And I think what's hard is, it's I don't think it's a one answer that fits all. I will say in certain types of training, de-escalation training is not one of them, but active shooter training, one of the things we've seen is the impact it has on the mental health of the worker as well. So yes, they're being empowered because they have information now, but that now they're thinking of themselves in a situation where there might be an active shooter. So it's not just having the training, but it's talking about repeating it, enforcing it, making sure that it becomes like a built muscle, so that you know exactly what to do and taking those incidents seriously.

 

David Turetsky: 28:26

Well, we can talk about this for a really long time. And it is really important to people's lives. So all I can do is say thank you, Yasmine, for what you do and what ROAR does. And sorry, this seemed like it went from being a Yeah! to a ugh.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 28:45

No, no.

 

David Turetsky: 28:46

There is no, there's nothing fun, there's nothing happy about workplace violence.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 28:51

Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 28:52

It is a fact of our, of our world right now.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 28:54

Absolutely. Absolutely. I would say if people do want to take action, long term action, I think one thing they could do is become involved with their city council to see what they're doing to increase the number of public bathrooms. Believe it or not, having more government run public bathrooms actually helps people be safer, because now people who are planning on shooting up, you know, they're not going to a Starbucks bathroom, they have the place to go. Harm prevention sites, having safe injection sites. Now, you're not just seeing on the street. It's actually pretty amazing the correlation of bathrooms, public bathrooms to safety, and then being able to work with them on like, you know, how do we support the initiatives that they have currently to help reduce homelessness, addiction, mental illness, the more funding that they have allocated for mental health, the safer the community is. I think one thing we have to remember just to go back to what we were saying at the beginning, is we're a community. We're not, it's not just us, we're all living together. And the more we act as one and take care of each other and see what we can do to lift up those who are most vulnerable, the safer and more connected and happier we will be. Kind of like when you get, you know, an ice cream cone handed to you and you can't help but smile no matter how terrible the day you've had!

 

David Turetsky: 30:11

That's right. That's right. So we're gonna look forward to Yasmine in her next career as being the vendor of happiness. You can add that to your title there. Thank you so much for everything you do. And thank you for being a part of the HR Data Labs podcast.

 

Yasmine Mustafa: 30:29

Thank you so much for having me.

 

David Turetsky: 30:30

My pleasure. And thank you all for listening. Take care. And please, as we've been talking about stay safe.

 

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