Tim Sackett – HR Tech 2023 – How AI Will Revolutionize Recruitment

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• david.turetsky@salary.com

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• “[In 2023], we saw a change in how technology is being funded in the VC world.”
• “I don’t think, ‘what is AI going to take away’—what is AI going to enable me to do because of the unique human traits that I have?”

Announcer: 0:02

Here's an experiment for you. Take passionate experts in human resource technology. Invite cross industry experts from inside and outside HR. Mix in what's happening in people analytics today. Give them the technology to connect. Hit record for their discussions into a beaker. Mix thoroughly. And voila, you get the HR Data Labs podcast, where we explore the impact of data and analytics to your business. We may get passionate and even irreverent, that count on each episode challenging and enhancing your understanding of the way people data can be used to solve real world problems. Now, here's your host, David Turetsky.

David Turetsky: 0:46

Hello, and welcome to the HR Data Labs podcast. I'm your host, David Turetsky. We're here at the HR Tech 2023 Conference. And I'm here with my good friend Tim Sackett.

Tim Sackett: 0:55

David, how are you doing?

David Turetsky: 0:57

I'm good. I'm tired. I've got a lot of coffee in me. I know you're drinking a rockstar right now. So this is going to be a very quick episode because we're gonna like power through this really fast.

Tim Sackett: 1:07

Yeah.

David Turetsky: 1:09

So Tim, people know about you. Any update in what, where you are what you're doing?

Tim Sackett: 1:15

No, I mean, I think, you know, again, same kind of thing. Just doing the blog, doing, running this staffing world, doing a lot of analyst advisory work in the startup space. Especially now. It's, it's such a different environment than it was like, last few years, like you had a good idea, and people were gonna throw money at you. Now it's like, it's not even. Can you actually have product? Or do you have customers is like, are you profitable?

David Turetsky: 1:36

Right.

Tim Sackett: 1:37

Like, it's just

David Turetsky: 1:37

Wow, that's a concept!

Tim Sackett: 1:38

changed overnight, right? Oh, yeah, I know, right? It's like, oh, wait, you have to run profit? Like come on! You can't burn a giant pile of cash?

David Turetsky: 1:45

Like Amazon.

Tim Sackett: 1:46

Yeah.

David Turetsky: 1:47

So what's one fun thing that no one knows about Tim?

Tim Sackett: 1:51

Oh, wow, there's probably a lot. Um, I have a house in St. George Utah. I mean, I've been forever in Michigan. So when I tell people like I drove over here to the HR tech conference from Utah, they're like, wait a minute, what's going on? And we're a Jewish family. And we're surrounded by all these Mormons and my wife's in love with like, the Mormon culture. And I go, she's gonna be the first Mormon Jew at all time.

David Turetsky: 2:18

Well, there are a lot of similarities in some ways, not in others.

Tim Sackett: 2:21

Yeah, exactly.

David Turetsky: 2:22

Very distinct. Well, that's interesting news. Didn't know that. So let's go and transition to our topic of the day.

Tim Sackett: 2:31

Yeah!

David Turetsky: 2:31

So what we're going to do is last year, what we did was we said, what happened in 2022 and what was new for 2023 and kind of put our prognostication on. But what we're going to talk about today is changes in 2023. And then what we might see in 24, and 25.

Tim Sackett: 2:47

Yeah.

David Turetsky: 2:47

And it's because it's, it's not hard. We're only a few months away from 24.

Tim Sackett: 2:51

Yeah.

David Turetsky: 2:52

But kind of putting it on a little bit longer term and saying what might happen beyond that? So in the recruiting space, recruiting technology space and the recruiting space, what the heck happened in 2023?

Tim Sackett: 3:13

It's interesting, because I think we had that we, you know, we talked about the change in the economic climate around technology. And really, it's not really a change in the technology, it was a change in how technology is being funded in the VC world. And part of that went from I mean, this is a broader economic issue, right? Where we go from literally money being at getting money at 0% interest to now being at seven, seven and a half, whatever. So now, companies are like, Well, wait a minute, we're not going to is going to give you money, hoping for a whatever, because we can just sit on money. And we're getting at seven and a half, eight percent, whatever. It was, like, it just totally changed. And so you see these, like, massive kind of layoffs in a certain segment of our economy.

David Turetsky: 3:51

Right.

Tim Sackett: 3:51

And like, the media, like pulls out, like, oh, my gosh, the economy must be awful. And then the same time, you're like, well, but the unemployment numbers are not changing.

David Turetsky: 3:59

Our employment numbers are through the roof!

Tim Sackett: 4:01

The amount of job openings really hasn't changed a whole lot. Why? Like what's going on? You're like, Well, yeah, companies have to be profitable. You can't have 8000 employees and be losing 100 million a year. No one's gonna fund that anymore. Right. So from a recruiting perspective, a lot of this hasn't changed, because we still have this weird, baby boomer demographic thing where people keep thinking like the baby boomers are already dead and gone.

David Turetsky: 4:25

Right.

Tim Sackett: 4:25

The reality is, is this year, next year, 25, 26 are the three, four largest cohorts of baby boomers leaving the workforce.

David Turetsky: 4:32

That's right.

Tim Sackett: 4:32

You're talking 3 to 4 million if not 5 million people a year in some of these years. And you're like, you just don't, we're not replacing that.

David Turetsky: 4:40

That's right.

Tim Sackett: 4:41

And so the number of jobs and the unemployment thing is gonna sustain for a long time because we just don't have enough humans now. Now we have obviously AI coming so like okay, that maybe that automation will help right?

David Turetsky: 4:53

But but a lot of those people who are retiring are skilled workers. I mean, there, there's a lot of people and if you look or tried to get your plumbing fix lately?

Tim Sackett: 5:01

Oh, yeah.

David Turetsky: 5:02

So first of all, the plumbers are old or older. And the ability to wait for a plumber has now become a new skill that we have to acquire. Because if you can find a good plumber, you have to wait. And so it's to me it's one of those things I'm not just pulling plumbers out because I've had that issue, but because skilled labor is going through a major change right now.

Tim Sackett: 5:24

Yeah, I mean, I do think on the high school side, we've finally gotten to this. And part of this is this whole skills economy thing that we've been, I'm not a real big fan of it. But the one positive thing is we no longer with our high school graduates, we finally saw the tipping point where it's not that you have to go to college anymore, because I think these kids understand. Now it might not be what you and I think of skilled trades of what they can make money, but they can use it or thinking, hey, I don't have to go to college, I can go and get skills, and actually make really good money really good living without that. So I'm hoping we'll start to see a little bit of transition more younger people coming into those. I mean, we desperately need it. And we suck at immigration. So we better do something. You know.

David Turetsky: 6:03

Well we've been complaining about immigration and at the same time, we've been complaining about not being able to find people to do the jobs that we would have filled in the past through immigration.

Tim Sackett: 6:12

I know it's a little it's a weird, I don't, you know, in the broader tech, like recruiting space, like and we take a look at, you know why we're here at HR tech. Like, it's weird, because I don't know if you've seen this, but to me this year, and last year feel very similar. In people believe that, what about AI? Well, AI didn't hit until like, really January, and everyone freaked out and have changed their roadmaps. And so you start to see little things popping up that are features, but you don't see massive transformation yet.

David Turetsky: 6:38

Not yet, no.

Tim Sackett: 6:39

And so that's where I'm thinking, like, I'm really excited for next year, I'm really excited for 2025, because we're gonna start to see some major transition with how this AI can be used and actually transform how we recruit, you know.

David Turetsky: 6:50

But even in the terms of things like building AI into our technologies, we're still not trained well enough to know exactly what it can do.

Tim Sackett: 7:01

Yeah.

David Turetsky: 7:01

And one of the funny things or actually, this is probably tragic, not funny, is we're actually building legislation based on hearsay and rumor.

Tim Sackett: 7:09

Oh, yeah.

David Turetsky: 7:10

In the federal level, based on just complete conjecture, not not being informed at all. That's gonna hurt us, isn't it?

Tim Sackett: 7:19

Yeah. I mean, I think you get into some broader conversations around kind of universal basic income. And I think there's, there's, there's a lot of politicians, I think, are looking for a job protection, right? And we're like, well, we don't want technology to take this and you're like, wait a minute, are we back in like, you know, the 1820s? What's going on? Like is, you know, the steam engine didn't hurt us, right?

David Turetsky: 7:39

Well, but in all those transitions, people went from being blacksmiths having to create horseshoes, to then then they were actually helping create the cars or becoming mechanics to fix the cars or. And in the same case, we're going to have aI come in, and the people who used to do the work that are getting replaced by AI, are going to be have to have to train the AI or at least manage the AI!

Tim Sackett: 8:03

Or we don't even know what jobs are going to be created. That the scary part, right? We get scared because you don't know what the future holds. But through every one of these industrial revolution transitions, we've actually ended with more jobs than fewer jobs.

David Turetsky: 8:16

Because they become enablers.

Tim Sackett: 8:18

Yeah. And so do jobs get eliminated? Heck, yes, they do! But also more jobs get created, and usually at a higher level, from a quality of life standpoint. Right? So like, so that's this piece of that you're like going well, is this going to happen? We just don't know yet what we don't know.

David Turetsky: 8:35

But I think one of the points you made before about profitability. And the layoffs that we talked about before, that's always been the excuse that people have been giving for doing these massive layoffs. It's not about the technology.

Tim Sackett: 8:47

No.

David Turetsky: 8:47

It's about profitability or management making dumb investments that then they have to pull back from, because they realize it kind of didn't pan out. And that's what's affecting the employees.

Tim Sackett: 8:57

Yeah, I totally agree. I think it's, it's one of those things that we're gonna, we're gonna see a lot of, I think over the next few years, especially with with the interest rate climbing, that's the thing, it's a broader economic issue, climate is what's really driving this, it's not about a better candidate experience, employee experience, all these things that we want to talk about and be a part of, and the technology space. This is really economic driven right now. And until and again, I think it's gonna go into 2024, from what we see, and then you're gonna start to see more than likely we'll start to see that kind of even out or transition down. And then, you know, things will open back up again. Most of the economic, you know, stuff that we're getting from the job market, is this going to be up and down by industry, but overall, I think it's still going to be, it's gonna be fairly hard to find people.

David Turetsky: 9:41

But this is part of business cycles that we've been going through for decades.

Tim Sackett: 9:44

For sure.

David Turetsky: 9:44

It's not, it's not any different. It's just now there's a different word associated with it. AI.

Tim Sackett: 9:50

So we think about AI and think about recruiting. I like I'm so excited about potential. Now, I'm also cognitive enough of saying when someone goes, well, we will no longer need recruiters and like, potentially! There's, I can, I can build you an idea and a stack where you would never need a recruiter. And you could probably get away with it. And you would actually, from a data standpoint would probably hire better for you. Because anytime we add a human into a process, when we increase bias, anytime we add AI into a process, we decrease bias, even though humans do not want to believe that. I can prove it, that we can reduce it because I can measure it, I can control it. I can't do that with Jim, the hiring manager, you know,

David Turetsky: 10:35

Clean slate, maybe? But if the AI is trained on the past...

Tim Sackett: 10:40

Yeah, but again, we can we can audit, measure for that and change, right? And readjust in real time where I can't do that with a human.

David Turetsky: 10:46

But the humans are the ones who are doing the audit, the humans are doing the one. And my point is, not that you're wrong, I totally agree with you. But we need a diverse slate of developers and engineers to ensure they're not just repeating the same mistakes that have led to the issues we are in right now that have driven pay equity to where it is.

Tim Sackett: 11:08

I think when we take a look at like machine learning, like 1.0, we had that was that was a major issue, because we saw it happen. As we got more sophisticated around machine learning in the AI, we got better at having third parties coming in to audit and really taking a look at this stuff. And really, I mean, the AI themselves is calling out like the issues that crop up, you know, in so again, is it perfect? No. But again, I trust the AI more than I trust a human. And I know I'm I'm on an island by myself there with a few other people, because that's not the popular opinion.

David Turetsky: 11:42

But yours is an educated opinion though, Tim, so when people are listening to this, they should know, you've been doing this for a really long time. So it's not like me where I'm just saying, I think this of the recruiting space.

Tim Sackett: 11:54

Yeah.

David Turetsky: 11:55

And I've been recruited before and AI is thrown me out and whatnot. You're the one who people turn to to understand this issue. That's the reason why they should be listening to you though.

Tim Sackett: 12:06

No, I appreciate that. I do think that when I think the future of recruitment, we think like, let's say it's 2025, where could we be? Or where we're, where we're that top 10% of like talent acquisition shops become? Because I think the future of recruiting is allowing and enabling recruiters to have really to actually go out and find the best talent in the marketplace, not say they only hire the best talent, but actually know who are the best talent. And I'm going to build a relationship and have time to build a relationship so that when, let's say, David, you're the best developer in my marketplace of Detroit, Michigan, I might not have an opening now. But six months later I am and I've had six months to build this relationship, I can then go to you and say, Hey, we're ready for you. And you're like, Yeah, I can't wait, I want to come, right? And I know, you're actually good, better talent than what we have.

Announcer: 12:52

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David Turetsky: 13:03

And so are you saying that in that case, AI becomes the enabler to enable that recruiter to not only understand that David exists, but to foster the relationship?

Tim Sackett: 13:12

Yes, yeah. And actually have a real human connection, right? Like, that's, to me, that's, I have to, we have to think about what what makes us uniquely human over the AI. I don't want to go, oh, my gosh, what's AI going to take away? Was the AI going to enable me to do because of the unique human traits that I have?

David Turetsky: 13:28

Right.

Tim Sackett: 13:28

So for me, the future of recruitment almost goes back into like, the 1970s. of, hey, you're going to actually build relationships with people, and they're going to come to trust you with their career in that. And then you're gonna know, right through all of these, you know, ways through technology through talking with other people that hey, this person actually is noticeably better talent. And we want to make sure we go after that person. Because right now we don't we, it's pretty much everybody in the industry still does the same thing. They post a job, right? People at that time of the job is open will apply, and you hire the best person of those who applied.

David Turetsky: 14:01

But how do you know they're the best?

Tim Sackett: 14:02

No, the best of those who applied! Which could be the worst in your market, by the way. That's the issue. Right?

David Turetsky: 14:08

Right.

Tim Sackett: 14:09

Whereas I think the future of recruitment is, hey, I'm actually going to prove out that this person is actually better, right? Through assessment through science through like, you know, connections with people that know, like this person, whatever, like, all of that stuff is going to come out.

David Turetsky: 14:22

Okay.

Tim Sackett: 14:23

So that now, I'm only building relationships with people that are actually better. Not, well, you're the best of the worst kind of thing, right? Which again, we might, we still hire great people, right? Because when we have an opening, somebody great actually applies and we just by happenstance.

David Turetsky: 14:36

Right, right. So in that case, then the AI is being more than just the tool that selects the right resume. In that case, then the AI is actually going out doing the search, using social media, using LinkedIn, using whatever it is, to be able to identify the scope of what you're looking for, and then potentially reach out to that person, give them an assessment, keep them warm, put them in a community, maybe make you the community leader. So you can reach out to that person directly. And keep them warm, as you say, until that seat becomes available.

Tim Sackett: 15:13

Yeah, and we've talked about that, right? We talked about talent pools and trying to keep people warm, and all that stuff for years! The hard part was, it was so resource intensive, we just never had the time for it, we never really do it.

David Turetsky: 15:22

Right.

Tim Sackett: 15:23

If you were a great individual recruiter, you might have a few people in your back pocket that you've like, maintained relationships with and stuff like that. But again, those were like a top 1% recruiter that just was great at their job, you could never really go, Well, how do I do this with 100 people? 500 people, 1000 people, right? You just never could. And I think AI is gonna give us that ability to actually go out and do that now. Because that's gonna be your sole focus of your job, right? So here's what I think will happen. And I think by 2025, we'll see real use case of this where all of a sudden, a hiring manager has an opening for a job, I need an engineer. The hiring manager will talk to their computer and say I need an engineer! Computer will talk back to the hiring manager and say, Do you want another engineer like the person hired last time? And you like, go, Yeah, except I need a little bit of this, more of this, less of this blah, blah, right? And they'll go through and bam, it will go do it in, it'll keep you know, I've contacted this many people, there's a couple of interviews set up on your schedule in a week, blah, blah, blah. And then, at the same time, it will also inform this recruiter to say, hey, there's like five or six of these candidates that we've reached out to we're getting no feedback, right? Because they know it's, you know, as much as we can personalize it, they're gonna feel that it's that somewhat of a outreach of from a technology, right? And then maybe even suggest, like, Hey, here's other ways we can try to contact this person or whatever, right? Here's their home address drive by, you know, who knows, right?

David Turetsky: 16:43

Okay, we're not suggesting you stalk your recruits.

Tim Sackett: 16:46

But you're gonna like, so there. So when we say like any of this, if you think of one tactical part of recruiting, that should be taken away by AI, it's, again, the things that are automatically, you know, that are uniquely human are going to be the things that you can have, which is relationship building, of, hey, how do we do this? And again, some of that might be this talent advisor concept where you have a hiring manager going, okay, AI got me to where I got three great interviews. But now I just don't know who to pick, right? Well, let's sit down with our talent advisor and really talk about well, why why are you struggling with this one? And this one, lets, you know, he'd become this coach almost right on a hiring coach side.

David Turetsky: 17:22

But But wouldn't you have also some metrics, like, for example, the assessments that were done?

Tim Sackett: 17:26

Sure, yeah.

David Turetsky: 17:27

That could give you qualitative data that say, the answers to the assessment and other things lead me to assume, or lead us to predict that this one out of these three might be the best fit for you.

Tim Sackett: 17:39

Yeah, you could.

David Turetsky: 17:41

And we've also seen those assessments go not just from the job itself, but also from the cultural fit, too, right?

Tim Sackett: 17:47

Yeah.

David Turetsky: 17:48

Then do the team cultural assessment to say, you know, this one seems like they're the best from the technology knowledge. But these others, these other two, have a much better fit from a culture.

Tim Sackett: 17:58

You bring up a great point, because right now, we do a lot of this one on one transactional hiring. Where a hiring manager, you know, and we see like, oh, we have team interviews and our people kind of get involved, but then they don't really have a say, Well, what if you did have team hiring? What if you fully had a team, because you could now because you have this much more capacity, and AI is giving and delivering in. You could actually have real, like, Hey, we're all going to be there, we're all going to do our notes, we're all going to say who we want to select, we're not going to do groupthink. And we're going to actually go and hire the best person for the team. Right?

David Turetsky: 18:25

Right.

Tim Sackett: 18:25

Who knows! That, I mean, that's the thing, if we can imagine it right now, potentially, AI is gonna be able to make this happen. Now, there's another concept that's farther out, let's say it's 2028, 2030 where if we really open our minds about what AI can accomplish, it would know every single job that's open across every employer.

David Turetsky: 18:45

Right.

Tim Sackett: 18:46

It would know. And they would also then know, every single candidate and their profile, and potentially, what their wishes and desires and all this stuff is, and then one to one, they could actually just start matching people and say, Hey, by the way, you're at this company now, but there's this job over here that you're actually probably more suited for, and in the marketplace or community you want to live in, add of salary blah blah. Like if we really opened our minds, we could disrupt the entire industry and do away with the LinkedIns and the Indeeds and everything else, because there's going to be this massive kind of matching going on behind the scenes.

David Turetsky: 19:18

You're basically describing a talent marketplace, where

Tim Sackett: 19:21

Where everybody's in it.

David Turetsky: 19:22

Right. But there's perfect information.

Tim Sackett: 19:24

Yes.

David Turetsky: 19:25

Not just about the roles, not just about the people, but it's also got to be in that case about the pay.

Tim Sackett: 19:31

Pay, skills, all of that.

David Turetsky: 19:32

Exactly. And then the matching of the need versus the capabilities that exist on the supply, would then enable, as we've seen in commodity markets, for people to then say, Oh, well, I've got tangential skills. I could try and go into that pool as well. And then be able to really push talent around, not just based on hey, I have a friend named Bob. Bob needs a job. He does this. Which is is not a talent marketplace. It's really just the kind of the happenstance or, and I know recruiting is not happenstance. I'm sorry, I apologize to recruiters profusely. I'm not trying to demean your jobs. But I'm what I'm saying is where Tim's coming out at this is really where the technology could take us. If we open that data up for the, for the computer to have it.

Tim Sackett: 20:22

You know the problem we have with the skills economy right now is a lot of it is self selected skills, or even 360 Peer skill review, where we, we're kind of terrible at self-assessment. And we're also kind of terrible at peer assessment.

David Turetsky: 20:33

Sure.

Tim Sackett: 20:33

Because we tend to like not want to hurt someone's feelings, or we tend to not really know, we're like, oh, well, yeah, I rely on that person for this. But do I know, are they, on a one to 10, are they a 10? Are they eight? Are they five? Like maybe I'm a hard grader? Who knows?

David Turetsky: 20:47

Right.

Tim Sackett: 20:48

So, you know, again, with AI, can we get validated skill, right? Where it's obviously now, someone might have 50, or 75 or 100, different skills that have been validated. And now this matching becomes even more robust, right? Like I said, another gig, again back to the data side of where this could be. Again, we're, I mean, it's all kind of panacea and like, on the horizon, but like, our minds are open to like, wow, we could really change some stuff.

David Turetsky: 21:12

Could. And 2025 could be the time.

Tim Sackett: 21:15

For some of that, yeah.

David Turetsky: 21:16

For some of it. Hey, are you listening to this and thinking to yourself, Man, I wish I could talk to David about this? Well, you're in luck. We have a special offer for listeners of the HR Data Labs podcast, a free half hour call with me about any of the topics we cover on the podcast, or whatever is on your mind. Go to Salary.com/HRDLconsulting, to schedule your FREE 30 minute call today. The problem is also then you add in the complications. You add in security and data privacy and California enacting rules that say a person who wants to can get their data eliminated, or is the whole GDPR.

Tim Sackett: 21:56

Oh, yeah.

David Turetsky: 21:58

So, you know, there's all of that. And then there's pay transparency, which brings the other side in and the how much is the company paying from a pay range perspective?

Tim Sackett: 22:05

For sure. Oh, yeah.

David Turetsky: 22:06

And having that listed on the opening as well. So there's so much stuff that could push 2025 in this, let's call it talent market utopia?

Tim Sackett: 22:16

Yeah.

David Turetsky: 22:17

But there are so many steps to get there.

Tim Sackett: 22:20

Yeah.

David Turetsky: 22:21

Is it 2025? Or is that 2030 or beyond?

Tim Sackett: 22:24

So my analogy is the frog in the boiling pot, right? That we're not going to know this is happening to us, because it's gonna happen to us so slowly, that we're going to wake up one day and go, Wow, our world has changed. And we didn't really realize it was changing, because it was changing so slowly, one step at a time. And all of a sudden, we're like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. And we see this now, like I told you, like, I don't, it doesn't feel much different this year than last year, because you're just seeing little features. But as these little features start to pile up on each other big change is happening.

David Turetsky: 22:53

Well think about the frogs. analogy for a second. The scenario that we've been working on that no one pays attention to is the predictive text on our phones. We all text, we've all been typing into it, whether it's our computers, our phones for a long time. And over the last three or four years, the text predictions, except for names, they've gotten so much better. And they're actually suggesting sentences to us now, before we actually start typing them.

Tim Sackett: 23:20

Yeah, except iOS still can't figure out duck and the other one. I still I'm never gonna say I'm so ducking so sick of. We just keep they can't figure that on out.

David Turetsky: 23:32

PG-13.

Tim Sackett: 23:33

I know. I don't know why they can't figure that out. Why are we?

David Turetsky: 23:35

Well, I think they have figured it out. They just don't want us to be able to. There should be setting on that. No, seriously.

Tim Sackett: 23:41

Yeah.

David Turetsky: 23:41

There should be a the setting that says allow for curse words.

Tim Sackett: 23:44

Yeah, I'm never gonna say duck. I won't.

David Turetsky: 23:48

Maybe it's a fact it's trying to tell you something. Tim.

Tim Sackett: 23:52

I use duck way too often in my text messages.

David Turetsky: 23:54

Exactly to the wrong people. Well, but but that's I have that same scenario, or I'm trying to type someone's name. And it's telling me it's not that name. I don't want to type that name. What do you mean? This is the person's name! Well, now one of the new functions on iOS 17 is it's actually looking at who you're texting.

Tim Sackett: 24:11

Yeah.

David Turetsky: 24:12

And then actually picking that name out. That's a little bit but that's what I mean. The AI has actually or whether it's Grammarly too, sorry to give a plug to Grammarly. They're they're building tools that make us better. Whether it's we're saying, I speak English good or I speak English well. It's given us that technology assist, it's pushing us in the back. Okay. It still stinks from a you know, Hey, Siri, can you do something for me?

Tim Sackett: 24:38

Sure.

David Turetsky: 24:38

But at least it's getting better. And to your point, we're living in it.

Tim Sackett: 24:43

Totally agree.

David Turetsky: 24:44

So we're adopting it.

Tim Sackett: 24:45

Yeah. We're currently slowly but surely boiling in the pot.

David Turetsky: 24:49

We are, we are. And you know, a lot of people are very fearful about it. And this is the reason why the AI stuff is getting into the regulatory area. They're worried that all these companies know so much about us. And as you see on a daily basis, you know, there's a new data breach, there was a data breach from 23andme, just recently for, for us Ashkenazi Jews. And there's so many things that happen in this world where we're just sharing so much that, you know, at some point, we're just gonna say, duck it, we're just all out and, you know, whatever happens happens.

Tim Sackett: 25:22

Totally.

David Turetsky: 25:23

But but in other cases, people are like, I don't want that. I want to be completely off the radar.

Tim Sackett: 25:27

Yeah.

David Turetsky: 25:28

And that's gonna be the the kind of one of the areas that if you can't have perfect information that trains the AI, because people won't give their data, then what happens?

Tim Sackett: 25:39

You know, we have this it's a unique thing, because, you know, we haven't heard a lot about blockchain recently. Right?

David Turetsky: 25:44

Yeah.

Tim Sackett: 25:44

And really, and part of that is because it's data privacy, if you get fired from a company, and as part of your blockchain, quote, unquote, resume, you go wait a minute, I don't want that out there. I don't want someone to know, because it wasn't, because it wasn't my performance. It was my manager was a crazy person, whatever. But I think what you'll see is like you that either you will be able to, I mean, again, we just know that if somebody wants to kind of eliminate that they're gonna have to have ways to do it. From a data privacy standpoint, it's the one thing that none of us really know how's this all gonna work? And it's like, even with the chat GPT and this large language models, like Bard, everything, like being trained on all of this content, you see these massive lawsuits coming out people saying, Hey, I don't want my content in there. I don't want you to train it on that. I mean, it's almost like the cat's out of the bag already. So it's like, okay, great. Now, what are you gonna do?

David Turetsky: 26:30

Some of this is really tinfoil hat bullshit, right? Yeah, the government's gonna get me because they know, oh bullshit. The government's not gonna come get you. But they exist. And they're real. And there's a lot of people like that right now.

Tim Sackett: 26:42

Yeah, for sure.

David Turetsky: 26:53

Anything else for 2025 you want to throw out there?

Tim Sackett: 26:55

No, I mean, I think we've like scared everybody purposely enough.

David Turetsky: 27:00

Alright, cool. Well, in 2025 we're gonna come back to this and see if Tim was accurate or not. Or, you know.

Tim Sackett: 27:06

Well, my robot will be here to answer those questions. But yeah.

David Turetsky: 27:09

The effigy of Tim will be here at the HR Tech Show. Tim it's always a pleasure. Thank you so much. My pleasure. And hopefully we'll see you soon.

Tim Sackett: 27:17

Thank you. All right.

David Turetsky: 27:17

All right. Take care. Thank you and stay safe.

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